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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: May 23, 2007 2:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Help the rest of the archive... please

Somehow the Live Music Archive seems impervious to spamming from bootleg music and videos, jihadi nonsense and other spam and copyright violations. Is there anyway to apply whatever procedures or policies are in place here across the board? It would free up countless gigabytes of storage space and bandwidth and keep the mujahadeen and bootleggers from diluting the pool of great art.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffARossi Date: May 23, 2007 4:51pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help the rest of the archive... please

Hi,

The Live Music Archive operates on very different principles than the rest of the Archive.

Historically, the LMA used to be a completely separate site/group called etree (hence the term etree floating around here) with a large group of admins and very strict rules for posting files. Long before I started working at IA, we offered to host their files for them so that they could grow their community more easily/inexpensively, and they (happily for us!) took us up on it.

Even though the LMA is hosted on the archive site now, it still runs as its own separate group. The rules are set by the etree admins (who don't work at IA) and are enforced by them. IA steps in to help out occasionally, but LMA is it's own little fiefdom in archiveland.

The rest of the archive operates on significantly looser principles, and with far fewer admins, as you've noticed. Our main concern with respect to uploads is archiving all content and remaining as open and accessible to everyone as possible. Setting rules or hurdles that people have to overcome in order to upload or download content is kind of antithetical to IA's general mission.

When you run across content that you think is copyrighted, we definitely appreciate you letting us know, and I think you've noticed that we do take them down when their provenance seems questionable. I hope you'll continue to let us know about these.

We do not take items down just because they lack metadata, have metadata in Arabic, or contain real media files. I understand that the metadata issue might seem "messy" to you, but placing rules on a few people places them on everybody, including those who want to upload legitimate files, and we don't want to make uploading any more difficult. On the Real Media front, certainly we would prefer more open formats, but we've got thousands of .rm files that are really valuable - take a look at the education section, for example.

Personally, I would prefer if every item in this archive had extensive metadata and open file formats. But we get plenty of things every day with those issues that are of value. Throwing out all items based on an arbitrary set of rules is tantamount to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. For an archive, that doesn't seem like an acceptable risk. We're not running out of storage space any time soon.

So, if you see items that you think are pirated, please let us know and we'll take a look. If you see items that are random zip or rar or exe files, let us know and we'll take a look. If the issue is just that the item doesn't have metadata, or the metadata is in a different language, we don't need to know about that. We know that we're getting a lot of items like that and we have decided to archive them rather than remove them. We are, after all, an archive.

Thanks,

Alexis

This post was modified by ARossi on 2007-05-23 23:51:18

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Poster: Telephone Toughguy Date: May 24, 2007 10:17am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help the rest of the archive... please

Well at least I got a response. Thanks for that. I will continue to notify you as I see the stuff that is definitely copyright. As for ethics, I am a bit confused. Although I know the freedom of information vision of the site and the possible moral conundrum of some content are too seperate avenues of ethics and not universal in themselves, it still seems odd that some of the content could ever be considered educational, historical or artistic in any way. I would hope that the same attention to copyright violations, which do none of us any good, would be spent on duplicate jihadi videos and other things worse than any pornography out there. I read a post from someone who downloaded files that were instructions for making IED's or some other explosive device. I cannot imagine that being something anyone would want to protect, at least in the context of public domain or creative commons media is concerned. I do not know if the video of the soldier screaming through the freshly cut opening of his throat is still up. But I imagine his family would not want it up here on the archive as a contribution to the cultural and historical pool of media items. In a historical context, I think the jihadi stuff should be made available. How about moving the suicide bomb videos to a section of the archive that warns people that the content they are about to see is graphic? I would go off about aiding the enemy by providing communication to enemy combatants, but I have to go to lunch and I am starving.

Thanks again for responding.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: May 27, 2007 7:29pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help the rest of the archive... please

I think the best way for you to help is by leaving accurate reviews of the items you watch/read/listen to, and emailing the archive when you find something that is uploaded in violation of copyright. At least for this corner of the archive, we rely heavily on the people downloading stuff to help us police what is here. It works very well for us. We get notified when something doesn't belong, and we respond accordingly. It is not possible for a small group of curators to experience everything here before allowing it in - similar to librarians not being able to read every book on their shelves.

-Brad

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2007-05-28 02:29:27

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffBrad Leblanc Date: May 27, 2007 7:16pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Help the rest of the archive... please

Historically, the LMA used to be a completely separate site/group called etree (hence the term etree floating around here) with a large group of admins and very strict rules for posting files. Long before I started working at IA, we offered to host their files for them so that they could grow their community more easily/inexpensively, and they (happily for us!) took us up on it.

Just want to share my understanding of the birth of the Live Music section Alexis:

I believe Jon Aizen actually approached IA himself before he was employed there to see if Brewster would let us host files here. Brewster agreed and the LMA was born. Jon got permission from a few artists - SCI Fidelity Records artists like String Cheese Incident, Keller Williams etc... were among the first to grant permission for their fan made recordings to be preserved here. Jon sent emails to some of the etree mailing lists alerting them to this new resource availability and the uploads began pouring in. He later became a full time archive.org employee, and put a lot of work into developing this corner.

-Brad